My Introduction: Long-term CRONie, 16+ years on the diet

[Matt]

I haven't yet introduced myself here so I thought I would do so for the newbies.

My name is Matt, 34 years old, and a blogger from the UK. I started a strict CR diet when I was 20 in 2005, but as I'll explain, I started making changes which resulted in weight loss two years prior to that.

In 2003 I came down with a terrible chest infection which required two antibiotics to clear it. It was probably the worst chest infection that I've ever had. During the recovery period which was about two weeks, I started to think that I really should be making changes to my diet to get healthy. During my teens, I mainly lived off cereals and quite a bit of junk food, too. The only reason I never become really overweight was likely because I got plenty of exercise playing sports.

From 2003 - 2005, I slowly began to make changes by not having sugar on my cereal, changing to wholemeal bread, cutting sugar from my tea, and stopped the fizzy drinks and drank more water. I also started to eat more fruit. I also went to the gym a few times per week, too.

All of these changes resulted in slow weight loss until I stabilized at a low-normal BMI. Then in 2005, I started a strict CR diet on just 1550 K/cal per day, and maintained a very low-calorie diet for at least 6-7  years before increasing my calorie intake a little. Not because I was having issues with the diet, I just wanted to look better. The hardest part about it was explaining to people why I was so skinny and having people worry about me since my BMI was as low as 16. Anyway, for many years after, I held a BMI of about 17.5, and with my small frame, I didn't get so many negative comments any more.

It's a bit fuzzy how I came across CR, but the Longecity forum and April Smith's blog probably had something to do with it. I might've come across her blog as I was a supporter of the Methuselah Foundation and Aubrey's SENS strategy to defeat aging at the time. I also had spent years reading essays and articles from Kurzweil's website about the future... and so to enjoy this amazing future, it seemed like a good idea to try and extend my lifespan and CR seemed like the best way to do that.

In 2019, I'm still optimistic that calorie restriction will be really effective for humans and some of us will easily surpass 100 years. While I don't believe the predictions Walford made about 150, I think someone that started in early adulthood could reach 130. 

If you look at me today, it would appear that I've 'eased up' on CR. And while that was true before, right now my average calorie intake is around 1500-1600 Calories per day, back to what I was eating in 2005 when I only managed to maintain a BMI of 16.3. Over the years, my metabolism seems to has changed and it's harder to lose weight, my body seems to be more resistant to losing fat. 

I wonder if anyone else who has been on CR for over 10 years has experienced the same? I've carefully monitored and tracked my food to make sure that I am not overeating... In fact, many days I would undereat. 

One change (but I'm not sure if it accounts for the difference) is that I work from home now, so I might be getting less exercise than before, but it's not like I was heavily exercising back then either. Even when I significantly undereat, it seems my body just holds onto the weight.

This diet has helped me in many ways though... I rarely get sick (again), I feel great, my allergies are completely gone so I can now enjoy the summer, and many people I meet still think I'm much younger than my age. So I'm very happy with the results so far. 

I miss the old days when there were several CR blogs. I don't know what happened exactly, maybe people just went off the diet or they weren't getting much engagement on the blogs so they gave up. I know I've felt that a lot over the years with my blog. I like writing about CR, but it gets virtually no engagement and no organic traffic (I won't go into why on here).

I'm still trying to be successful with my blog. It's been really hard. But I hope to have more time soon to participate here a bit more than I have so far.

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Matt

[drewab]

Having practiced CR for 16+ years (making it nearly 50% of your life) is rather impressive and is something to be proud of. You stand a very good chance of seeing what will pan out in the future. I too am keenly interested to see what the future holds for humanity and it's one of my motivations for taking care of myself. I personally maintain a much higher BMI (20.7) but for me it's what I am comfortable with and I have much respect for people who stay trimmer, though at this time it's not for me. You said you won't go into why CR gets no engage and no organic traffic... you can't leave us hanging on this! Care to elaborate?

[Gordo]

I'm guessing it gets no engagement because to most of the world extreme CRers just look like people with an eating disorder and they either feel sorry for these people, mock them, or just think they are nuts. There is still only very flimsy evidence that such a strategy is effective for longevity and the results from people who have attempted it are pretty awful so far. Even Fontana who studied most of the hard core guys from here has said extreme leaness, especially in men, is a sign of overdoing CR.  But you too can look like you have an eating disorder, destroy your sex life, and get osteoporosis if you want a low probability chance of living to 130 based on little to no evidence.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, it's been a long time! I'm really happy that I found CR and started it at such a young age. It has benefited me a lot for improving my health, eliminating my allergies, getting sick much less and even though I'm almost 35 years old now, people still think I am a university student (early 20s usually). So I'm quite happy with the results so far :D. I'm confident that CR will work really well.

@drewab & @Gordo 

There are just less active people building a 'CR Community' to push more engagement. No active CR blogs except mine, no YT channels based on CR as the focus, and even forums don't have much going on whether it be on here or Longecity. A decision was made to make the Facebook group as a 'closed group' a few years ago, which further reduced exposure and that's when I feel things declined over there.

There is an interest in calorie restriction!! Over 5000 searches per month in the US on Google, but look at the first page of Google when you type: calorie restriction.

It's mostly news articles about a specific study. Nowhere are there any sites dedicated to calorie restriction. I've spoken about it before, how the CR Society, with some effort in creating original content, could easily get on that first page, which will naturally drive lots of organic traffic to this forum. Think about some of those 5000 people per month finding this forum...

I simply can't compete for the keyword "calorie restriction" because I don't have enough authority. So they never find my blog, unless they type in "calorie restriction blog", which only gets about 10 searches per month. So people aren't even finding my blog other than from a few low volume keywords related to CR (there aren't many), and they are not finding the CR Society site by typing in that keyword "calorie restriction" either. But I've explained before, the CR Society could capture those 5000 searches per month if it created good original content and not just relied on user-generated content. Where is the leadership for the CR Society in making this happen?

So it's not that interest isn't out there... there is plenty. It's just I've had almost no support at all from the longevity community for my site, so I can't gain authority and therefore can't direct them here. These 5000 Google searches each month (US) aren't finding the CR Society forum either because it's currently on the 5th page of Google in no man's land.

We can make the CR Society a much more active website if some of us can come together and make it happen.

Fontana said that some people were taking it too far, not all of them. The average BMI of the CR group he was studying was around 19, which is within the normal range.

That's just your opinion, Gordo 😛. I think there is pretty good evidence that CR will work in humans. More than you're giving credit for.

Many of the CR Bloggers back in the day were also mainly females and most of them had a normal BMI and didn't look too thin. Perhaps the reason men stayed away from blogging is for the reason you mentioned: looking too thin and how men get a lot more negativity for that than females. David Fisher has had a really good response from people... so it's not all negative. 🙂

When I had a BMI of 16, I did get quite a few negative comments, mainly from family and a few friends. When I increased it to 17.5, rarely anyone would point out my 'thinness'.  I think it's helped that I have a pretty small body frame and I seemed to hold onto fat a bit more easily. No one ever points out how thin I am anymore with a BMI over 18. Probably 99% of the comments I get these days IRL are actually very positive... and my BMI is less than many in the Fontana study.

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Matt

[Gordo]

Note that I only criticize "extreme CR".  I practice CR myself and believe it works to improve health and longevity, I do it in the Fontana and Sinclair style though.  I don't want osteoporosis nor do I think extreme CR will be much if any benefit to me.  

As for forums, the problem is that CR is too narrow and specific.  People are actually interested in longevity and/or immortality much more than "CR" specifically, and CR is only one small part of what people can be doing to optimize health today.  I think the relevant online forum with the most activity today may be:

https://www.reddit.com/r/longevity/

 

[mccoy]

3 hours ago, Gordo said:

I think the relevant online forum with the most activity today may be:

https://www.reddit.com/r/longevity/

 

I looked the reddit forum up but it seems pretty confused to me, or better: this is a quiet living room where people sit on couches speaking  about CR, longevity, healthspan, sipping a cup of tea.

r/longevity is a noisy, large hall.

[Saul]

Hi Matt!

I agree with you completely.  I started CR in 04/1996 -- so for a little over 23 years.

Things were good in the CR Society, with meetings roughly once every two years, arranged by David Stern and Robert Krikorian.  David arranged the conferences, and Robert chose the speakers -- always interesting.  These meetings were wonderful -- those of us who practiced CR, whether vigorously or less, had the effect of reinforcing each other.  It was wonderful getting together with other like-minded individuals. 

But the last two meetings had low attendance, which discouraged David and Robert; we haven't had a meeting for quite a while.

If I recall correctly, you were present at at least one meeting (David Fisher has been to many 🙂).  As I recall, you asked some quite knowledgeable questions; I was impressed.

Concerning Gordo's comments:  Gordo is a recent contributor to these Forums; he's never been to a Conference.  He has not been in Luigi's study, and has not been to CRONA.

Most of his statements about Luigi are false.  Luigi did remove one subject from his study, a person who was considered anorexic, and who did hurt his health with extreme caloric restriction without doing an adequate job maintaining his essential micro and macro nutrients -- there is exactly one such person; many of you know who this is; I won't mention the person's name (who I've never met personally), so as not to embarrass him/her.

It would be wonderful if regular meetings of the CR Society resumed -- these meetings had good effect on members of the Society, much beyond merely the ones who actually attended the meetings.  IMO, these meeting should be subsidized by the CR Society, as IMO their effect goes much beyond those who attend.

(I've been to every meeting except the first.  I wouldn't miss one.)

😊

  --  Saul

P.S.:  I'll be celebrating my 80'th birthday in mid June -- I'm in excellent health, with the same lipid levels, etc., that I've had since starting CR -- among the best in the CR Society,

[Gordo]

Quote

Most of his statements about Luigi are false. 

I love to be corrected.  What did I get wrong?  Fontana has said in recent lectures that extreme leanness, especially in men, is a sign of overdoing CR.  Are you disputing that?  I can link you to the exact frame of the video for this quote (again) if you need me to.  Are you disputing that extreme CR leads to osteoporosis?  Because you have osteoporosis, so does Paul McGlothin (author of "Living the CR Way"), so does Al (he lost a remarkable 9 inches of height at one point). I've seen multiple reports of people doing extreme CR that have broken bones, in some cases the injuries were extremely debilitating.  In the meantime, of the groups of people producing the most centenarians, you don't see extreme CR driving those gains anywhere.  Anecdotes from Dean seemed to indicate that the hard core CR folks that used to go to the conferences haven't been aging all that well in general, but I wouldn't know...

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Gordo

[Ron Put]

I'll chime in, even though I am not certain what "extreme CR" actually means. The advanced economies are all starting to bulge, so perhaps the new "normal" is BMI between 25 and 30 (23andme data shows that in the US there is not a single state where average BMI is less than 26 (Hawaii is the only one at 26, the rest go from 27 up).

To my knowledge, generally populations in the "Blue Zones" consume less calories on average than the surrounding population (often because they were poorer :) They also consumed less protein in general and ate less animal products. These trends are changing there as well,/ Most average life expectancy nowadays is inching up due to medical advances and better access to medical care, despite raising obesity, although that trend seems to be slightly reversing for some groups in the US (white males). The UK is almost as obese as the US and trying hard to catch up.

Here is another Okinawan study, addressing caloric intake:

"Long-term caloric restriction (CR) is a robust means of reducing age-related diseases and extending life span in multiple species, but the effects in humans are unknown. The low caloric intake, long life expectancy, and the high prevalence of centenarians in Okinawa have been used as an argument to support the CR hypothesis in humans. However, no long-term, epidemiologic analysis has been conducted on traditional dietary patterns, energy balance, and potential CR phenotypes for the specific cohort of Okinawans who are purported to have had a calorically restricted diet. Nor has this cohort's subsequent mortality experience been rigorously studied. Therefore, we investigated six decades of archived population data on the elderly cohort of Okinawans (aged 65-plus) for evidence of CR. Analyses included traditional diet composition, energy intake, energy expenditure, anthropometry, plasma DHEA, mortality from age-related diseases, and current survival patterns. Findings include low caloric intake and negative energy balance at younger ages, little weight gain with age, life-long low BMI, relatively high plasma DHEA levels at older ages, low risk for mortality from age-related diseases, and survival patterns consistent with extended mean and maximum life span. This study lends epidemiologic support for phenotypic benefits of CR in humans and is consistent with the well-known literature on animals with regard to CR phenotypes and healthy aging."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5859391_Caloric_Restriction_the_Traditional_Okinawan_Diet_and_Healthy_Aging_The_Diet_of_the_World's_Longest-Lived_People_and_Its_Potential_Impact_on_Morbidity_and_Life_Span

Edited May 14, 2019 by Ron Put

[Gordo]

Quote

 I am not certain what "extreme CR" actually means

Its kind of like porn, you know it when you see it.  😉But seriously, Fontana defined it pretty well in a recent lecture:

Fontana: "We used to think the more calorie restriction the better.  WE NOW KNOW THIS IS NOT TRUE."

Matt himself recently posted this interview of a guy that is a great example of doing CR the right way:

http://www.crvitality.com/2019/04/david-fisher-interview-calorie-restriction-2019/?fbclid=IwAR0Cwzd5Yh3dVMSvf-yE1LU8wCYQCcYd9CXG3GKWfmWm9ogLrlS-KlKbrKc

Note that even though Matt didn't ask, it certainly seems like this guy has a BMI > 20.  Also note that you do not see extreme leanness, he is clearly maintaining muscle mass.  What you eat is more important than how much.

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Gordo

[Matt]

I had an interesting experience like 3 hours ago at a temporary job I'm doing for Christmas period.

People have always thought I was far younger than my age, especially since I started CR. But today at work, I got into a conversion with a girl who came over to help me and we got talking about what we both do... I mentioned to her that something happened with my blog in October on my birthday... and explained what had happened.

So anyway, she asks me: "So how old are you anyway?" 

I hesitated for a second in case she says a high number lol. 😄 I said that I was 35 years old. Ad the look of shock on her face was priceless. She literally just said "No f** way, omg, are you serious?"  I said yeah... She said: "but I thought you were like 22!"  

I laughed and was said thank you.. and then explained what my blog was about.

She asked me to guess her age but I didn't want to offend her... after some hesitation I guessed she was 21. She is 22. So she thought I was her age.

So then about 10 minutes later her friend she works with comes over and straight up asks her friend: "How old do you think he is? 

Her friend replied, he looks about 20 years old.

Then her friend said, no, he's actually 35. Can you believe that? Well, her friend never believed it, she thought I was lying to her and that I was really 20 but just having her on.

And then word got around and I was bombarded with questions.

Also, I went to work today on 4 hours sleep and yesterday at work I only had 2 hours (doing night shifts and I had other work but that's finished now.) So I thought I probably wasn't looking my best lol. Apparently it didn't really matter so much... 

I think I shared her before that a few months ago, maybe early summer (can't remember), a girl who came to my house with my brother and chatted with me for a little while assumed I was 18 years old.

So these are not one-off instances. 

I know calorie restriction slows the appearance of aging in animals. I wonder if it really is CR doing this. 

Anyway just thought I'd share. I must admit it did make me feel happy and kind of validation for the efforts and choices I've made. It helps. 🙂

Edited November 29, 2019 by Matt

[mccoy]

11 hours ago, Matt said:

know calorie restriction slows the appearance of aging in animals. I wonder if it really is CR doing this. 

We can only hypothesize but maybe Alpater has posted an article where skin senescence in Cr rats was tested against ad libitum.

My guess is that, in your case, innate genetic combinations may have produced a significantly younger look and that has been reinforced by CR.

 

[Ron Put]

I have been told that I look much younger than my biological age for most of my adult life (I used to get carded well into my 30s).

However, I started consciously reducing calories only in the past three years or so. I was never fat (BMI never been over 23, currently about 19-19.5) and I have been a vegetarian for about 20 years, but I wouldn't consider it practicing CR. My guess is that it's largely genetics.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Ron Put

[Ron Put]

I guess it's good to look younger than your age at any time beyond your teens, but it may be particularly important for predicted longevity once you hit 70.

"The researchers found that perceived age was significantly associated with survival and life span, even after adjusting for chronological age, sex, and the environment in which each of the twins grew up.

Perceived age, the researchers say, adjusted for chronological age and sex, also correlated with physical and cognitive functioning, as well as length of leukocyte telomeres - chromosome tips on DNA of people's white blood cells.

Shorter telomere length is associated with a “host of diseases related to aging and lifestyle factors and has been shown to be associated with mortality,” the researchers write.

The bigger the difference in perceived age within a twin pair, the more likely it was that the twin who looked older died first, the authors say.

The sex, age, and professional background of the assessors made no difference in any of the results.

 

Basing perceived age on facial photographs is thought to be a robust biomarker of aging that predicts survival in people 70 and over and correlates with important functional and molecular age-related characteristics, the authors conclude."

https://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20091214/look-young-to-live-longer

[Matt]

One thing I learned in that job was how important sleep is for your skin!!! By the end of it I looked and felt completely different... Unfortunately, I barely got 4 hours sleep most night s while I was working, but had good sleep during 3 days off per week. I screwed up my sleep and couldn't go backwards and readjust.. 😞 

Still recovering right now...

But just thought I'd take a quick video of me. Hi ! 😄  Don't be harsh okay... I'm still tired... sleeping 13 hours per night!! 😄 

 

[Saul]

Hi Matt!

I watched your video.  (One thing I saw right away -- you ARE a boy!)

Concerning CR and sleep -- really rigorous CRONnies, such as Michael Rae and Khurram Hashimi, report having difficulties getting a proper night's sleep.  There's convincing research that slow wave sleep is important; during slow wave sleep, cerebral spinal fluid pours into the brain and "washes away" a lot of the plaque forming proteins that build up during waking hours -- that's probably a lot more important than any effect that sleeplessness might have on the skin.

I'm a fairly rigorous CRONnie, and despite my frequently given advice about meditation being a useful practice for improving sleep duration and quality, I nevertheless usually have difficulty getting adequate sleep.

You appear to be a serious CRONnie.  Perhaps sleeping problems are an unfortunate side effect of rigorous CR.

(P.S.:  In the past, Dean Pommerlau reported sleeping only 4 hours nightly -- claiming that he didn't need more sleeping time, which he thought was an effect of CR.)

  --  Saul   

[Matt]

Oh, I don't have any issues sleeping at all when I'm allowed to sleep on my own schedule; I actually sleep very well. Since practically forever I've always had huge difficulty going from west to east (backwards) with my circadian rhythm. I can only seem to go from east to west and go forward with my body clock.

So because I also have another job, it completely screwed up my sleep days before I started working a night job. I accidentally fell asleep a few times after my normal job and woke up at 3-4 am. Then I couldn't go backwards and wake up at 9 PM for work at 10 pm on my night shift. 

No one really understands it when I explain to people... lol. They just say: "why can't you just sleep?"  

I can sleep perfectly, when my body is ready to sleep at its proper time. Then when I had the xmas job I tried staying awake after I got home at 6 am and worked my normal job from 9 am - noon. But by then I would start waking up and get overtired and couldn't fall asleep until 5-6 pm some days... 

During my days off working the night job (3 days a week), I could sleep perfectly fine (about 8-10 hours) but I would tend sleep until 1-2 am... And so the cycle would repeat again: I wouldn't be able to sleep until late afternoon during work week and then had to get up after only 4 hours.

Hope all that makes sense?

TL;DR  I have no problem sleeping on my own schedule (I sleep long and fall asleep fast.) I can only push my sleep forward but can't seem to go backwards successfully.  

The effects of sleep deprivation

As for the effects of sleep deprivation, they were horrible! Felt like I was aging before my eyes, my skin started looking really pale and dull. Dark circles after 2nd week. And some days I couldn't even properly think or speak.

For about a week and a half, I've been sleeping about 12-13 hours every night with maybe one awakening to get a drink. Not sure it's possible to 'catch up' on sleep, but I do feel it's rejuvenating and I'm starting to feel more like myself again. 😀

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Matt

[Dean Pomerleau]

22 hours ago, Saul said:

P.S.:  In the past, Dean Pommerlau reported sleeping only 4 hours nightly -- claiming that he didn't need more sleeping time, which he thought was an effect of CR.)

I'm not sure if I ever said 4hr per night, but I used to be fine with 6hr. These days I get 7.5hr per night, and sleep very well. No more waking up in the middle of the night like I used to when my BMI was around 17.

--Dean 

[Saul]

Sounds good Dean.

I sometimes have trouble getting to sleep.

  --  Saul 

[Ron Put]

On 1/3/2020 at 3:56 AM, Dean Pomerleau said:

I'm not sure if I ever said 4hr per night, but I used to be fine with 6hr. These days I get 7.5hr per night, and sleep very well....

Do you count time in bed, or do you use a tracking device to measure actual sleep time?

The two are rarely equal.

6-7 hrs of actual sleep time appears to be optimum in terms of lower mortality rates, if I recall.

 

[Dean Pomerleau]

On 1/4/2020 at 7:37 PM, Ron Put said:

Do you count time in bed, or do you use a tracking device to measure actual sleep time?

I wore a fitbit tracker for a while and found for every 8 hours I'm in bed I'm asleep about 7.5 hours. That's why I said I sleep about 7.5 hours. I go to bed around 8pm and get up at 4am.

--Dean 

[mccoy]

On 1/5/2020 at 1:37 AM, Ron Put said:

6-7 hrs of actual sleep time appears to be optimum in terms of lower mortality rates, if I recall.

The optimum according to professor Matthew Walker, presently the most known sleep researcher, is rather higher, averaging 8.5 hours  (from his numerous podcasts and his book).

It includes the optimization of health and cognitive aspects. Not so easy to achieve, considering it's net sleeping time...

Edited January 6, 2020 by mccoy

[Matt]

I think it's absurd to actively restrict your sleep based on reports that say if you sleep x amount then it's associated with a lower mortality. Instead you should improve your physical and mental health, as well as your sleep habits, and this in turn may decrease the amount of time spent in bed sleeping.

I can't imagine needing 8.5 hours sleep and restricting to 7 hours because maybe a study says it's better for lower mortality. Just feeling crappy all day does not sound fun. Just listen to your body and mind and sleep until you feel properly refreshed. I sleep about 8.5 hours and if I restricted mine to 6-7, I know I wouldn't be functioning the best I could. At 6 hours I feel awful if it carries on for a few days.

For adults who sleep 9, 10, 12, more hours, I think there could be many reasons why there is a higher mortality seen. It's not the sleeping longer itself which is the cause (at least on the lower end.)

It could be deficiencies, immune system related (infections, autoimmune), sleep quality or frequent awakenings. Perhaps the amount of time spent in bed = less physical activity and this outweighs any additional benefits from another 1-2 hours in bed.

In the case of sleep, I think in most cases it is better to sleep until you feel well-rested. Optimize your lifestyle and that may result in needing less sleep, but I think it's a terrible idea to artificially restrict sleep to the point you feel bad from doing it. 

Sometimes we just need to sleep longer for whatever reason. Give your body and brain the rest it needs. I slept 12-13 hours a night for almost two weeks after I finished that night job. Felt rejuvenated after that and it showed too. 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Matt

[Ron Put]

On 1/9/2020 at 6:29 PM, Matt said:

I think it's absurd to actively restrict your sleep based on reports that say if you sleep x amount then it's associated with a lower mortality. Instead you should improve your physical and mental health, as well as your sleep habits, and this in turn may decrease the amount of time spent in bed sleeping.

I can't imagine needing 8.5 hours sleep and restricting to 7 hours because maybe a study says it's better for lower mortality. Just feeling crappy all day does not sound fun. Just listen to your body and mind and sleep until you feel properly refreshed. I sleep about 8.5 hours and if I restricted mine to 6-7, I know I wouldn't be functioning the best I could. At 6 hours I feel awful if it carries on for a few days....

Matt, I don't believe that the studies advise how much time we should sleep. People generally sleep as much as their bodies need to (or, allow them to). 

What the studies I've seen discuss is that there is a U curve showing that those who require roughly 6-7 hours of sleep are less likely to die within a future period.

To illustrate, I just found this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3010336/#!po=50.0000)

[mccoy]

That's a single study based on actigraphy, which does not seem to be the golden standard for sleep monitoring. I wish that were true, since 7 hours it's the time I usually sleep, but, alas,

based on Matthew Walker's credentials: professor of neuroscience and psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, 

And present activities: Walker is the founder and director of the Center for Human Sleep Science, which is located in UC Berkeley's department of psychology, in association with the Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute and the Henry H. Wheeler Jr. Brain Imaging Center. The organization uses brain imaging methods (MRI, PET scanning), high-density sleep electroencephalography recordings, genomics, proteomics, autonomic physiology, brain stimulation, and cognitive testing to investigate the role of sleep in human health and disease. It researches Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, cancer, depression, anxiety, insomnia, cardiovascular disease, drug abuse, obesity, and diabetes,

He's very likely to be more on target with his 8 to 9 hours.