My Introduction: Long-term CRONie, 16+ years on the diet

Keliot · June 24, 2020

I think we seriously need to get away from this delusion, "OMG, I look so much younger, I am doing something right".

It is complete bogus. Some people have great facial skin and have slower age appearance than others and they DON"T do any CR. In many ways it might be genetic. Smaller frame/thinner people will be perceived as younger, longer hair, etc etc. There are SO many reasons for that. Staying out of the sun, not smoking, etc etc.

This constant focus on "looking younger" is a distraction and misleading and is not a good correlate for any health marker or longevity.

In fact, MANY CR people look older because they have lost facial fat and skin is sagging and they look generally unwell.

For a 35 year old man that has been out of the sun and taken good care of his skin and been generally in good health and weight to constantly claim that he is mistaken for a 20 year old is something that just happens, it is not a special indication of anything and happens to people that don't do CR at all and are on full diets.

Saul · June 24, 2020

True.

-- Saul

Matt · June 29, 2020

On 6/24/2020 at 1:44 PM, Keliot said:

I think we seriously need to get away from this delusion, "OMG, I look so much younger, I am doing something right".

It is complete bogus. Some people have great facial skin and have slower age appearance than others and they DON"T do any CR. In many ways it might be genetic. Smaller frame/thinner people will be perceived as younger, longer hair, etc etc. There are SO many reasons for that. Staying out of the sun, not smoking, etc etc.

This constant focus on "looking younger" is a distraction and misleading and is not a good correlate for any health marker or longevity.

In fact, MANY CR people look older because they have lost facial fat and skin is sagging and they look generally unwell.

For a 35 year old man that has been out of the sun and taken good care of his skin and been generally in good health and weight to constantly claim that he is mistaken for a 20 year old is something that just happens, it is not a special indication of anything and happens to people that don't do CR at all and are on full diets.

It's not really a delusion though, is it? One would expect to look younger if you are in fact aging at a slower rate. This is consistently seen among animals subjected to calorie restriction and have their aging slowed. They have extended youth and middle page and show less signs of outward aging that animals not on calorie restriction. The same is true for animals that are in some way altered or given drugs to slow aging.

If after 20 years you are not seeing any signs that you and your peers around the same age are not diverging in terms of appearance, then that actually isn't a good sign and it's not consistent of what is typically seen in individuals who go on to reach extreme longevity. Many people who appear to be aging more slowly due to genetics, typically look and sound decades younger than their actual ages.

Your claim that looking younger is not correlated with health status or longevity is wrong. Perhaps it's not the most reliable and best marker of aging but it's a very common feature that one would absolutely expect. People also tend to act and sound younger than their age too. I work on the phone a lot and even then, people typically assume that I am around 19-20 without even seeing me.

And here's an anecdote for you from my experience: I've spoken with thousands of people over the phone of all ages, including people in their 90s an 100 and as I'm interested in longevity and anti-aging I sometimes assume they are decades younger than their age by the way they sound. After asking further (when finding out their age) they often tell me that they've always been mistaken for also looking a lot younger than their age.

Simply having amazing skin doesn't automatically mean that you look younger than your age either. There are so many examples of people using Retin A for decades and sure, their skin is spotless and perfect even but they still look their age.

Many older CR people have already had years of exposure to UV rays, massive weight fluctuations and a lot of damage has already occurred. There are advantages of starting from a young age and have not experienced any of this.

Yes, I constantly get mistaken for being around 20 years old. As I've already expressed to people: this is not me going out and asking randoms to guess my age; this is people enquiring or finding out from someone else and then being shocked and it's THEM making a huge deal out of it. If this is as 'common' as you claim (which it's definitely not) then there is no reason why I am often singled out for looking so young relative to everyone else.

If it was so common as you say, there would not be 'internet sensations' like Lure Hsu who is now 45 but looks as if she's in her early 20s with thousands of articles published and appearance on TV shows about how young she appears (btw, she is on CR, vegetarian and also takes care of her skin.)

It's not common and it SHOULD be a feature of slowed aging. If you don't have this, then I'm sorry for you. And perhaps it's not necessary but you will live longer anyway. Humans live more complex lives that caged animals that don't get UV exposure and haven't been on yo-yo diets or had other bad habits half their lives before engaging in CR and other practices to slow down aging. It may just take longer for the outward effect of slowed aging to become more obvious if you start later in life.

Looking young is positive reinforncement that the changes I made are working and it also often brings up conversation of longevity that I share with people. People who meet me listen to me because I look young, they listen to what I say because they always say: "what you're doing, it's working really well." It's sometimes a conversation starter things like SENS and other topics relating to life extension research.

Looking young, sounding young, moving young; these are not causes of longevity in and of themselves, but they are features or signals of slowed aging.

I have more, but I'm going to make some hot chocolate first.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Matt

Matt · June 29, 2020

The connection between how old you look and your biological age. It's delusional you say? There is no connection?

I have studies and science, but you've inspired me to do a blog post! So I'll publish on there first. Thank you! 😃

Edited June 29, 2020 by Matt

drewab · June 29, 2020

16 hours ago, Matt said:

The connection between how old you look and your biological age. It's delusional you say? There is no connection?

I have studies and science, but you've inspired me to do a blog post! So I'll publish on there first. Thank you! 😃

I look forward to seeing that blog post!

Matt · July 1, 2020

Still quite a bit more to add but here is the first version. http://www.crvitality.com/2020/06/does-looking-young-for-your-age-mean-you-will-live-longer/

elatedsquirrel · July 3, 2020

On 5/9/2019 at 4:14 PM, Gordo said:

Note that I only criticize "extreme CR". I practice CR myself and believe it works to improve health and longevity, I do it in the Fontana and Sinclair style though. I don't want osteoporosis nor do I think extreme CR will be much if any benefit to me.

As for forums, the problem is that CR is too narrow and specific. People are actually interested in longevity and/or immortality much more than "CR" specifically, and CR is only one small part of what people can be doing to optimize health today. I think the relevant online forum with the most activity today may be:

https://www.reddit.com/r/longevity/

What's the difference between "extreme" and "Fontana and Sinclair style"? Is it just the difference between 1500 calories and 1800 calories?

Matt · August 22, 2021

The picture of me standing up with short hair is from when I was 19 years old and the long hair photo is me almost 37 years old 🙂

Just thought I'd show how it's going so far...

Gordo · August 22, 2021

You definitely look young!

I think some super centenarians did have that classic "baby face" look and always looked younger for most of their lives, but in other cases, looking younger is just due to genetics and does not lead to longevity. Like the well documented people that have IGF-1 deficiency or lack of growth hormone or more severe genetic issues, as far as I know, none of those are noted for longevity, but all are noted for looking younger than their biological age. Likewise, I don't think there is much evidence that restricting growth hormones for example actually helps a person live longer.

Fabry Disease - this 25 year old looks like a 12 year old boy:

Or the 9 year old that looks like an infant (top, held by mother):

Then of course you have the famous subjects of Valter Longo's research, who had Laron syndrome:

(18 years old)

Edited August 22, 2021 by Gordo

Matt · August 23, 2021

Lower insulin/IGF-1 and GH signaling is actually associated with familial longevity in humans as well. These are some rare cases you're describing with some pretty extreme phenotypes, but in the case of Laron dwarf, they do experience far less cancer and other diseases but not much increased longevity. Although, it has been noted that a significant cause of death in these people is liver failure due to excessive alcohol (and maybe other reasons) and accidents. They're also often significantly overweight from what I remember. It's been a while since I looked into them though so don't quote me on that. 🙂

Growth hormone secretion is diminished and tightly controlled in humans enriched for familial longevity

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acel.12519

I know that looking younger for ones age is something to be expected for any intervention that is actually slowing down aging. One should definitely expect this to happen and it would be perfectly consistent with what's observed in animals and humans who live a very long time. Of course, I do display characters (being on CR and all) of the phenotype observed in long-lived people: low fT3, low fT4, low body temperature, low glucose/insulin, etc. My testosterone is also quite low.

My phenotypic age according to Morgan Levine's data is 14.94 years old and on Aging A.I 3.0 it is 23 (the lowest cut off age in the data set).

Aside from looking younger, people on the phone always believe I'm 18-19 years old based on my voice...

I'm looking forward to getting a DNA methylation test this year!

I have seemingly aged differently than all of my 99% of my friends and most of my family. I look way young now than both my parents did at this age. Younger than all of my cousins, too. But my mum and dad do look a bit younger than their age (especially my dad). My sister looks in her mid 20s and she is 35 in October. My sister also has all the typical CR biomarkers and her biological at is 14.94 (Morgan Levine) and 23 for aging.ai 3.0.

If anyone is interested, I wrote an article a while ago about looking younger and living longer: https://www.crvitality.com/2020/06/does-looking-young-for-your-age-mean-you-will-live-longer/

Edited August 23, 2021 by Matt

Matt · August 23, 2021

Do you know Ralph Macchio? He has longevity in his family (grandmother lived to at least late 90s I believe - not sure if she is still alive) and his parents look young for their age apparently.

This was Ralph around the age of 28 years old

Looking young doesn't mean someone will live longer, but it is certainly a part of slowed aging.

Aaron · August 30, 2021

On 8/22/2021 at 5:03 PM, Matt said:

The picture of me standing up with short hair is from when I was 19 years old and the long hair photo is me almost 37 years old 🙂

Just thought I'd show how it's going so far...

Does the low testosterone cause the reduction in facial hair, or is it just a clean shave? How's your sex drive?

Matt · September 1, 2021

On 8/30/2021 at 9:26 PM, Aaron said:

Does the low testosterone cause the reduction in facial hair, or is it just a clean shave? How's your sex drive?

I guess it does slow down the growth of facial hair a little but affects body hair more.

Libido is pretty low... but that wasn't always the case just from CR (even though it lowered my T levels also). I take finasteride and some supplements that significantly lower testosterone and DHT.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Matt

Aaron · September 1, 2021

8 hours ago, Matt said:

I take finasteride and some supplements that significantly lower testosterone and DHT.

Do you take them just to lower T or for other reasons?

Finasteride is prescription I believe. What other supplements are you taking?

AlanPater · September 4, 2021

On 9/1/2021 at 2:43 AM, Matt said:

Libido is pretty low... but that wasn't always the case just from CR (even though it lowered my T levels also). I take finasteride and some supplements that significantly lower testosterone and DHT.

Finasteride Oral - Drugs & Medications - WebMD

https://www.webmd.com › finasteride-oral › details

Finasteride is used to shrink an enlarged prostate (benign prostatic hyperplasia or BPH) in adult men. It may be used alone or taken in combination with ...

‎Finasteride · ‎User Reviews for finasteride oral · ‎Prostate Cancer

My Introduction: Long-term CRONie, 16+ years on the diet

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