Huyme - Hi to all members!

[Huyme]

Hi everyone! I've recently registered to the forum, despite being almost 5 years I know it. I apologize if you'll see some mistakes every now and then, as English is not my first language. 

 

I registered here because I've always been very interested in the topic of science and nutrition. As a very curious person I became interested when in middle school, and since then i spent a lot of my time reading about it. I'm a 20 yo male and I'm studying physics and engineering at university, although biology has remained my favorite scientific subject. I keep reading on my own about human/cell physiology, genetics, ecology and zoology. I also like using pubmed and google scholar for my research purposes. 

 

My personal story with nutrition has been troublesome at first. As a very stupid teenager, in 2014 when i was only fourteen I was emotionally driven to anorexia and orthorexia, I recovered from it thanks to my family and ED specialists (a dietitian and a psychologist) in less than one year. Unlike some ED patients, I fully recovered and I've never fallen back into it (or other EDs) since then. 

As an ex anorexic-orthorexic my diet used to be very precise. All the minerals and vitamins requirements were met and all nutrients strictly tracked (using CRON-o-meter). The weight loss was obtained mostly through a low calorie intake in the first period, and an high calorie expenditure during the second phase. I precisely remember all the sensations thanks to a journal I kept, it's also possible for me to recall the diet as I used to report it in the journal. Given this information I think it could be seen as an empirical attempt of severe CR despite the brief period (6 months). I haven't seen anyone on this forum bringing on such a severe restriction so I'm open to discussion, in particular I'd like to talk about the short and long-term consequences the extreme diet had during that developmental period. 

 

After that, my eating habits have been a standard French/Italian diet without much change over the course of the years. Not the most healthy way of eating with some junk food here and there, but at the moment i prefer enjoying meals with family/friends without any restriction and focusing on other aspects of my life; right now i prefer studying CR rather than practicing it. Since 2016 I've been really interested in the scientific aspects of CR, constantly reading new publications concerning health and physiology in general (mostly abstracts, and full papers when available). 

In 2016 I discovered this forum, and I've regularly come here as an "outsider" following some threads, in particular when new interesting studies came out.

 

Despite being "silent" for all this time, I want to thank you all for the interesting discussions brought on over the course of these years. In particular I say thanks to @Dean Pomerleau who gave really nice insights when commenting studies! 

Today I decided to sign up to play a more "active" role. As I said, I don't plan to go on CR, anyway I hope to bring something useful from my past and future experiences and obviously keep learning! 

I hope not to have bored you all, have a good day! 

[drewab]

Welcome to the forums! Like many people here, we have a common interest in science and its interaction with human health including both healthspan and lifespan. Given that you are a long time reader of the forum, I'm sure you'll also know that taking an in-depth look at any number of topics with a 'science-mindset' is common. Of course, people don't shy away from deeply philosophical discussions too. Basically, what I'm saying is that people around here like to think deeply and carefully consider their notions. 

I'm glad to hear that you've successfully navigated your eating disorder. I'm not particularly familiar with that world, but do know that it can lead to some pretty devastating impacts. I would be curious to hear a more extended/in-depth elaboration on your experience, since it seems like you'd like something useful to come from your experience there and would like to share. I do have a question though, if you aren't interested in CR in any capacity, why do you keep exploring the topic? (Many people do this, but I am curious about your motivation). Are you interested in pursuing a healthy lifestyle outside of CR? Are you hoping for pharmacologic interventions?

Lastly, Dean has made some incredible contributions to this forum. There are many threads of his that I have read several times and revisit frequently. 

I'm looking forward to your contributions here...

[mccoy]

On 10/21/2020 at 3:32 PM, Huyme said:

I haven't seen anyone on this forum bringing on such a severe restriction so I'm open to discussion, in particular I'd like to talk about the short and long-term consequences the extreme diet had during that developmental period. 

I went thru severe, non-optimized CR for a few months when 21 and the results were anemia, sleepiness, weakness, loss of digestive power. I hit a BMI of 17 kgm-2 (now I'm at 24). It took some time to recover.

[Huyme]

On 11/1/2020 at 5:34 PM, drewab said:

Welcome to the forums! Like many people here, we have a common interest in science and its interaction with human health including both healthspan and lifespan. Given that you are a long time reader of the forum, I'm sure you'll also know that taking an in-depth look at any number of topics with a 'science-mindset' is common. Of course, people don't shy away from deeply philosophical discussions too. Basically, what I'm saying is that people around here like to think deeply and carefully consider their notions.

Thank you drewab. As I said, I came across this forum in 2016 but unfortunately I've just followed a few long threads, so I don't know all the topics that have been (and are being) brought on. I'm going to read more of them soon. 

On 11/1/2020 at 5:34 PM, drewab said:

I'm glad to hear that you've successfully navigated your eating disorder. I'm not particularly familiar with that world, but do know that it can lead to some pretty devastating impacts. I would be curious to hear a more extended/in-depth elaboration on your experience, since it seems like you'd like something useful to come from your experience there and would like to share.

When I started reading this forum I noticed that some signs of CR were similar to those I've seen brought to the extreme in my experience. 
I started lowering calories in August 2014. By the end of September I was averaging 1200 kcal/day and kept this degree of CR until the end of the year. My BMI dropped to a dangerous 14.5, I weighed 42kg at 170cm (92,6 lbs at 5'7''). In September I had stopped taking long cycling rides but I still had regular physical activity. I assume I was at about 40-50% CR (still with all micronutrients requirements met, except vitamin D and B12 obtained through supplements).

I witnessed steady, gradual changes, both physical and psychological. The first one was hunger, which got from tedious to almost unbearable and painful (despite the high amount of fiber and filling foods). It also compromised sleep quality as I frequently woke up because of it. Over the years I came to the conclusion that my hunger is mostly related to net calorie intake and long-term energy balance rather than calorie density of food. 

The second major change was cold sensitivity. Before that I used to be a very well cold-acclimated person. I used to wear less layers of clothes than other people in the same room but by the end of December the situation became the opposite: I was freezing all the time also when the others were ok. With freezing I don't mean the uncomfortable but somehow pleasant sensation of cold exposure: I mean a horrible, continuous sensation of extreme cold "into the bones". For the first and only time of my life I looked forward very hot showers, the only thing that gave me some temporary relief. 

The third ailment was constant fatigue and overall weakness. As I should have expected my NEAT dropped: I was no longer moving around and I also stopped doing some involuntary movements (such as swinging the foot while sitting, a thing other people told me I used to do. I noticed i started doing this again after recovery) 
The fourth thing was sex drive that plummeted. This didn't give me any problem as I wasn't in a relationship, anyway I noticed the sudden lack of interest. 

Other physical changes were not as important as these, although i had a slight hair thinning and cracked skin on hands which caused some discomfort and bleeding. 
I won't discuss in greater detail the psychological changes as I guess those were mainly due to the "ED mindset" and not caused by severe calorie restriction per se. However, depression and social avoidance were the worst ones.
Strangely, in this first period I didn't lack too much focus while studying, despite the annoying hunger and cold.

In the second period (from January to March 2015) I raised my calories to ~1900 kcal/day. At the same time i started engaging in more strenuous exercise (running and/or cross-country skiing everyday). My weight remained almost the same, getting to my lowest 41.4kg (91.3 lbs, BMI 14.3). There were no changes other than depression which got better, and mental focus that got worse.
I did one blood and urine test during those months. All values were still in the normal range with the exception of AST/ALT which were above the upper limit, signaling a liver problem. Unlike you @mccoy I didn't have any sign of anemia, but the other results you mentioned are definitely in common, the drowsiness in particular. 

I find it interesting to note that even though I stopped losing weight in that period of time, hunger did not subside at all. I now find this consistent with a fact I experimented, that my hunger and fullness signals are mainly related to a "set point" (in my personal case). If the set point is exceeded, I lose appetite even if eating little. When weight goes down relatively to the set point, I'm very hungry even when eating over my TDEE. I've found this was also the case in the Minnesota starvation experiment, where some partecipants reported frequent hunger for an extended period of time up to months after the end of the experiment, in spite of their hypercaloric diet.

In my case, I started recovering in March eating a hypercaloric diet followed by my MD and the ED specialists. By the end of April I regained all the weight and then stopped the hypercaloric regime, eating to appetite. In May they assessed me as completely recovered. During the recovery I experienced gastrointestinal discomfort and difficulty to digest all that food at first. Anyway, after a few weeks this inconvenience went away and I regained all lost energy and vitality. 

All this lasted about half an year, but it was enough for me to see how terrible these disorders are. If someone stumbles upon this forum not because of genuine interest in CR but as a way to fuel an ED, please seek help because almost no one gets out of this disorder alone. 

On 11/1/2020 at 5:34 PM, drewab said:

I do have a question though, if you aren't interested in CR in any capacity, why do you keep exploring the topic? (Many people do this, but I am curious about your motivation). Are you interested in pursuing a healthy lifestyle outside of CR? Are you hoping for pharmacologic interventions?

Even though I'm not into the "practical" side of CR, I'd like to work in the healthcare field and hopefully help in the development of pharmaceuticals or technology to aid longevity research. Some clinical trials which have been brought on recently give me hope about some major breakthrough, I'd like to contribute to the cause. This is the main reason why I've subscribed to this forum. While browsing I recently came across SENS through the posts of @Michael R who I also want to thank for his work and contributions here.

Lastly, the fact that I don't plan to start CR soon doesn't mean I will never practice it in my life. At the moment I want to take advantage of my youth to try building on some muscle and maybe start CR later in life. I think the opposite could be inconvenient because it will get increasingly harder to grow muscle mass as I get older. There is also the problem of prefrontal cortex maturation. Actually I think slight CR isn't likely to interfere much with the process, anyway I wouldn't like to mess up with it, because the doubt is still there. 

I don't think I'll be a prolific poster as I'm still pretty ignorant scientifically speaking so when I'll come here it will be in order to read, mostly. However I hope I'll be able to share something meaningful in the future, if I'll find time to study this subject in depth. 

[mccoy]

On 11/11/2020 at 11:09 PM, Huyme said:

At the moment I want to take advantage of my youth to try building on some muscle and maybe start CR later in life.

There are also strategies like repeated 5-days  Fast-Mimicking-Diets. By distancing the single FMDs adequately and refeeding adequately after each one you can optimize health, possibly increase lifespan and avoid a chronic state of thinness (which is the inevitable consequence of strict CR).

[Saul]

I regard the FMD as toilet worthy.

  --  Saul

[Todd Allen]

5 hours ago, Saul said:

I regard the FMD as toilet worthy.

Mimicking the FMD with fresh whole foods might be a better choice than buying the proprietary packaged processed foods.

 

[mccoy]

19 hours ago, Todd Allen said:

Mimicking the FMD with fresh whole foods might be a better choice than buying the proprietary packaged processed foods.

By all means, FMD to me is fresh foods, I provided so many examples of FMDs here on the forum that it shouldn't be hard to follow. The packaged FMD is good for those who don't have a clue, or don't like to think about the foods.

On 12/12/2020 at 9:50 PM, Saul said:

I regard the FMD as toilet worthy.

Saul, you can also do a keto FMD. I myself might experiment that soon.