Enabling Post Feedback Emojis?

[Dean Pomerleau]

In my investigation of the Longecity.org forums as a model for our own, among many of the differences discussed in this thread, I found one thing I really liked about LongeCity's forums, and that it seems wouldn't be too hard to get working over here. That is the feedback system Longecity uses to give it's users a way to send kudos (or scorn), and generally give feedback on a post, without having to write it out in a separate post.

 

Very often I would like to express Thumbs up!, Good Point!, I agree! or 'Michael you ignorant slut' about a post, without having to to take the time to write out precisely why - well except for that last one, which usually needs justification. ☺ I hesitate to express such sentiment in a separate, content-less post, since it seems like a waste of time for others to have to read. But I nevertheless often feel the urge to thank the person for the effort they put into their post.

 

Longecity.org has an amazingly rich set of options for easily providing feedback on posts by simply clicking on emojis. Here is a screen capture of all the options you can click on to rate a post on the Longecity Forums:

 

They represent, in order from left to right:

1. Good Point
2. Informative
3. Cheerful
4. Well-written
5. Well-researched
6. Like
7. Enjoying the show
8. Needs references
9. Unsure
10. Disagree
11. Dislike
12. Ill-informed
13. Off-topic
14. Dangerous, irresponsible
15. Pointless, time-waster
16. Unfriendly

This many options may be overkill, but they certainly offer a rich set of ways to provide feedback on a post. You can then search for posts based on ratings, and even see the kinds of ratings people have received. 

 

Longecity uses the same forum software as we do (IP.Board) and so it shouldn't be too hard (he says naively) to enable this sort of feedback system over here on our forums as well. But obviously that's only something Tim C. can answer. Tim?

 

Would other people find such a rating system as useful as I would? Feel free to express what you think as a reply to this thread. But I'm also going to try something new with this post, and that is using the built-in Poll facility that is enabled on our forums. I'm not sure exactly what it will look like, but please express your opinion about this idea by participating in the poll, which should show up on this page somewhere. 

 

I can't imagine many people would be dead set against the idea, but the poll will enable us to gauge just how many people are reading these forums and would appreciate having these options, in order to see if it is worth Tim's trouble. Of course, if we already had the feedback system enabled, we could gauge interest in this idea effortlessly, simply by having people click on the + or - (like or dislike) emojis. Of course, if it were already enabled, we wouldn't have to vote about enabling in the first place!

 

Thanks,

 

--Dean

 

Later - Hey - the polling facility is pretty cool! Of course it doesn't replace the feedback system I'm advocating we enable, but it's good to know it's available.

[Dean Pomerleau]

Huh. This poll has been up for over a week and I'm apparently the only one who is in favor of activating the emoji feedback feature to let people quickly and easily give feedback / kudos on posts they like (or dislike) without having to explicitly post a thank you. 

 

I'm very surprised people aren't more enthused about this feature, and instead are either indifferent or outright opposed. Given there have only been 20 reads of this thread (several of them mine) and only 4 votes, it seems like things are pretty much dead around here anyway, except for a few of us diehards talking amongst ourselves. I guess it's not worth Tim going to the trouble, if/when he eventually reads this.

 

Oh well... Thought it would be nice.

 

--Dean

[Todd S]

Dean,

 

I was one of the voters responding "Don't care" -- based on that I prefer to know who is responding in a certain way. Our total reader numbers is so low that I don't see as much value in just counts of unique emojis. But I don't mind the option being implemented. [i wonder who voted No -- and why.]

 

Todd

[timc]

TLDR: I'm the third 'no' vote.

 

Longecity uses the same forum software as we do (IP.Board) and so it shouldn't be too hard (he says naively) to enable this sort of feedback system over here on our forums as well. But obviously that's only something Tim C. can answer. Tim?

We are on a 3.4.8 version of the software, but the latest is 4.1.13 (that *might* be what they are using at Longecity - I might chase down my login credentials later). I couldn't tell browsing as a guest.
 
Typically, major revision number changes like 3.X to 4.X will add lots of features. So an upgrade to 3.4.9 from 3.4.8 (for example), would just be a bug fix. However, an upgrade to 4.1.13 would be more like, "Holy hell, everything's changed!".
 
Without further research, my guess is those emoji's are part of the 4.X branch or some add-on software (and emojis are mentioned in 4.X release notes, but there are so many of these things - <_ src="https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11731-enabling-post-feedback-emojis/%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_unsure.png" alt=":unsure:">        - that it is hard for web1.0 people like myself to track). The Invision Power community forums do not seem to use the emojis you reference above (that's not to say they can't).


There *IS* available a "Reputation System" in our current version.
 
On a board I frequent, the positives of the 'rep system' are:

1) the ability to send PMs (private messages) specific to that topic so if I click on your post to 'up' rep and type "GREAT POST!", then you know exactly which post I mean.

2) you can see who has 'positive' rep in the community and - to some extent - how much - and who has 'negative' rep (the 'kooks' or non-group thinkers)

The negatives of the 'rep system', IMO:

1) too many posts about giving rep (or taking it away) (down votes) - it's almost like formalizing 'me too' posts

2) IMO, I think it ought to be capped so people stop thinking about trying to get more rep or becoming 'rep whores'

 

3) promotes group think (that could be a positive)


It might be nice to see - at a glance - a user's reputation, but it is not without downsides.The best feature is just the ability to comment quickly and privately on a *specific* post.
 

To address a few points of yours,
 

I can't imagine many people would be dead set against the idea, but the poll will enable us to gauge just how many people are reading these forums and would appreciate having these options, in order to see if it is worth Tim's trouble. Of course, if we already had the feedback system enabled, we could gauge interest in this idea effortlessly, simply by having people click on the + or - (like or dislike) emojis.

I can't imagine your lack of imagination here. :wink: [That used to make a winkie face in other UBB contexts. Sadly, I have no idea how the future will interpret any of the :face-things: that get inserted here. I expect graphic-icon-smiley-based communication to change rapidly and lose value over time faster than letters.]

- How would one conduct an election or vote on a referendum via emojis or smileys? Of course the suggestion to run things democratically - fine of course as a suggestion - cracks open the old can of worms as to 'How do we decide how we decide?'. Do we count paid - Supporting Members - and past paid (Lifetime, Founding) more than other members? Should a conference attendee vote count as more? Do we announce votes or need any type of quorum?

- Does one want to get feedback from someone who doesn't bother to type a message? Warm fuzzies are nice, but do they obligate me, emotionally, to reciprocate?

- Is it easier to deploy than to undeploy?

- Do certain features remove more than they add?
See: The Paradox of Choice and information overload or analysis paralysis. You might be immune from these affects but I know I'm not.

 

- Can I disable the system so as not to be alerted by how much chatbox4034801 really my post?

- I'll admit to an anti-icon/anti-emoji/anti-smiley bias. It's not the death of literacy but it's certainly not a high point either. They're not much better - possibly worse - than what is accomplished with text ("yes", "no", "?", "wtf!").

 

- IMO, I have trouble with both the WYSIWYG editing features as well as the plain text version (which wants to needlessly scroll sideways on long lines rather than breaking automatically). None of that applies to the issue here, except I hate to see more added when other stuff is not fixed, won't be fixed. Life will be perfect when version 5.0 comes to save us all. Again, I have a bias against most new features.

 

- Would a scientific journal use it or find it useful? A PM system could be useful (though they might want a commentary public), but expressing science-based (hopefully) sentiment through icons? If 'like's and '+1's and 'up votes' replace discourse in scientific literature then maybe it has more suitability here.

- It's artificial socializing very prone to manipulation by AIs in a context - the web - where that is likely to be an increasing problem. Do you want sentiment to be automated?
 

Of course, if it were already enabled, we wouldn't have to vote about enabling in the first place!

 

"A rose by any other name..."

Reading that quote again, it is unclear if you mean that emojis replace voting on worded propositions or that if it was enabled we wouldn't have to vote on enabling it. We would instead have to vote on disabling it.

As a purely techincial matter, don't you already have the options to do what is suggested? In that Firefox and other browsers - like Chrome - are extensible - and one could automate a method to add the proper emoticon to express one's opinion at the click of a button or to give feedback with a click of a button or two (one click to identify the post, one click to pick out the suitable sentiment). It wouldn't be the same and it's not tracked by the website database, but it can be done.

 

If the need to automate expressions of emotion is that great, where ought the burden to automate it be? What happens when they take away your  ? That's a shady dude. Or maybe that's an expression of faith and I've just greatly offended somebody or a great many somebodies!  Of course, I'm conflating smileys with graphics that represent things like "14.  Dangerous, irresponsible".

 

If we could poll future generations on the topic, they'd likely reply with four-dimensional icons our brains can't process. Dean ... your brain could process it. I would short circuit.

 

 

[Dean Pomerleau]

Tim,

 

I think you've totally misunderstood. If you realized how these "emojis" really worked you wouldn't be baffled by how a vote could be easily taken using them. 

 

You really should log in to Longecity to see this system in action. I thought I described how it works pretty well, but I probably shouldn't have called them emojis. They aren't embedded in a post like smileys. Instead it is like giving a 'Like' to a post on FaceBook. Here is what the bottom of one of Gordo's posts about Cold Exposure looks like at Longecity.org:

 

 

As you can see, Gordo has gotten 2 "Informative" votes and 1 "Well-Researched" votes for his post - and I'm being given the option (on the right) of selecting from a wide range of feedback emojis (or whatever you want to call them). Obviously the "thumb-up" / "thumbs-down" or "+" / "-" feedback could be used to poll readers about the topic of the post. Get it?

 

There *IS* available a "Reputation System" in our current version.

 

I think that's what they are using over on Longecity.org. Here is the description of the feedback system I'm referring to from their help pages:

 

Reputation
If enabled, you will see reputation options in the corner below each post. You may see an icon representing the reputation other members have given for that post, along with icons to give reputation. To give the post a positive reputation, click the  icon or to give the post a negative reputation, click the  icon. On some boards, you may see a button to Like content, such as this:  If you choose to do this, it will show that you "Like" a certain post, and will also add a reputation point to that post.  You may only be able to give positive or negative reputation, and for some users you may not be able to give reputation at all.

 

I really can't believe you are so negative and curmudgeonly Tim about this reputation system for posts. I can understand your hesitation if it would be a lot of work on your part, and I certainly wouldn't argue for implementing it if it were, given how little traffic there is here in general, and how little support this idea seems to have. But I really think it is a easy and friendly way to give positive feedback to people when you appreciate something they post.

 

How hard would it be to activate / deactivate the reputation system you mention is available in our version of IP.Boards? 

 

--Dean

[Todd S]

Dean--FYI,

 

On some boards, you may see a button to Like content, such as this:  If you choose to do this, it will show that you "Like" a certain post, and will also add a reputation point to that post. 

I'm using a Mac Mini with the latest OS X El Capitan 10.11.5 -- and the two special characters in the above quote display as a question mark in a box.

 

Todd

[Dean Pomerleau]

Yes Todd,

 

I see the same thing. Those images a missing graphics from the documentation section of the IP.Boards forum software package. It thought it was a nit not worth picking...

 

I really find it hard to fathom why people are voting against this idea. But whatever. Given how moribund these forums are (as apparently is the entire CR Society as Tim points out), they have basically just become a fancy blog for the few of us who remain active.

 

I just thought the so-called "reputation system" (which I think is a bad way of describing it as well) would be a good way for both active posters and lurkers alike to express themselves without having to post.

 

It seems I was wrong.

 

Given this apparent anti-social (not just a-social) attitude among so many members, it's no wonder to me why the CR Society has gone down the tubes... We've lost that spirit of camaraderie and mutual-support that used to define our merry little band of misfits and visionaries...

 

--Dean

[timc]

Given how moribund these forums are (as apparently is the entire CR Society as Tim points out), they have basically just become a fancy blog for the few of us who remain active.

 

I said 'dormancy' and I was speaking of my own view - not the 'entire CR Society'. Some things work in the style of subcommittees (like conference planning) and don't have full involvement for the bulk of the work (which is more than fine with me).

 

 

I just thought the so-called "reputation system" (which I think is a bad way of describing it as well) would be a good way for both active posters and lurkers alike to express themselves without having to post.

 

 

Do you know offhand if these systems do increase lurker involvement and - if so - whether that's beneficial? They wouldn't be very effective at lurking if they're constantly chiming in with opinions.

 

 

Given this apparent anti-social (not just a-social) attitude among so many members, it's no wonder to me why the CR Society has gone down the tubes... We've lost that spirit of camaraderie and mutual-support that used to define our merry little band of misfits and visionaries...

 

--Dean

 

You're draining this introvert's energy ...

 

[Dean Pomerleau]

Tim,

 

Some things work in the style of subcommittees (like conference planning) and don't have full involvement for the bulk of the work (which is more than fine with me).

 

Agreed - committees (and even subcommittees) often just slow things down and get in the way. But regarding the "create email list of CR Society members and former members", this seems like it would be in your court, and pretty much your court alone. But it sounds like this activity is "dormant" as well?!

 

Do you know offhand if these systems do increase lurker involvement and - if so - whether that's beneficial? They wouldn't be very effective at lurking if they're constantly chiming in with opinions.

 

Since the reputation feedback system is anonymous, lurkers could indeed maintain their self-imposed vow of silence, but nevertheless contribute either kudos or demerits for posts they like or dislike. I think it could be beneficial, but we'll only find out if we give it a try. In this statement you remind me the several "analysis paralysis" sufferers we have around here, that I've mentioned recently. If it's not hard to turn on/off, why not give it a try to see? People are free to ignore it entirely. And we can shut it off if it brings out the ugly side of existing forum members, or attracts anti-social riff-raff.

 

Perhaps Sthira might chime in which his perspective on the Longecity's reputation system. I know he mentioned a bit about his experience with it in the "Future of the CR Society" thread. Sthira - do you give the Longecity post-feedback "reputation system" a thumbs-up or a thumbs-down?

 

You're draining this introvert's energy ...

 

Obviously. Perhaps you should eat more calories ☺.

 

--Dean

[Mechanism]

Edited