Greg Scott

A variation on the Tibetan Buddhist Sand mandala. The sand fights back...

Agreed. Now that's good stuff Sthira. You've got talent, sonny.

Dean, This sounds like a contrast between an ordinary person and a genius. No contempt is intended in my use of the term "ordinary person". It also brings to mind this quotation: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." It could be that the inspiration for this quotation Is Henry Buckle: Background is on p.32, the gist of the quotation is on p.33: Haud Immemor (Not Unmindful) by Charles Stewart. Here is the quotation for the click-averse: "Buckle said, in his dogmatic way: "Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence ; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons ; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest, by their preference for the discussion of ideas" The epigram, for an epigram, is, I think, unusually true; but the modifications it requires for practical life are too obvious to dwell on. The fact, of course, is that any of one's friends who was incapable of a little intermingling of these condiments would soon be consigned to the home for dull dogs." For more on Buckle: Wikipedia: Henry Buckle. Here is another excerpt you might like from "Haud Immemor" (p.158): " The best years of life are after fifty or sixty, when you know what the world really is and what it has to offer. One knows more, and can do more for others; has more experience, and is free from illusions about wealth or rank or love ; or even about religion, for one begins to see what is really valuable in it, and what is half physical and half emotional."

My feeling exactly (that such arguments are "fairly weak and not especially convincing". I don't believe there is any amount of ratiocination that could produce defensible "theorems" about purpose in life. It all boils down to preference. Saying that preferences are inherited, based on eons of selection (i.e. they have survival value) doesn't justify the preferences. They might be useful for propagating genes, but survival itself is pointless in a universe devoid of purpose (or at least a universe in which animal life has no purpose (in a philosophical, teleological sense) other than proliferation or continuance of genetic factors). I find most instances of "life purpose" to be *very* arbitrary, rather than merely *somewhat* arbitrary. But we all need to pass our time somehow, so I applaud anyone who latches on to some "purpose" that provides self-justification or gratification and doesn't hurt anyone else. I like that way of putting it, and concur. However pointless and arbitrary the adoption of his principle might appear, it is certainly admirable. My "take" is probably clear from the foregoing remarks, but I'll elaborate anyhow. I have an esthetic approach to this issue. [it seems the quaint spelling aesthetic might still be predominant, but I'm all for spelling reform] There are behaviors that appear ugly, including selfish or hurtful attitudes and actions. They appear so to me, no matter what anyone says. However, I am not a unique machine, so I expect many other humans to think just as I do. You made a comment earlier about a framework being "convincing or ennobling", and that nails it. The "convincing" part covers the need we have for rational notions, and the "ennobling" part covers what I call the esthetic approach. Attitudes and behaviors that we would call noble attract us. Their opposites (ignoble, selfish, heinous,... whatever expressions of distaste or disapprobation we use) are repellant, ugly, offensive to our delicate esthetic sensibilities. The ugly reality is that there are people who don't share our esthetic values. That compels us to do a cost/benefit analysis of confrontation with them. In some cases we defend our arbitrary values by attempting to obliterate the enemy. The outcome doesn't matter to anyone but us, here and now. Nothing matters really. But we do have our predispositions and preferences, and each of us can have a grand time, for it seems to me we live on an interesting little planet.

Another arbitrary assertion ("Happiness is the purpose of life.") I see nothing wrong with setting goals or pursuits. One has to pass the time somehow. Yet the feverish "pursuit of happiness" seems to cause more misery to the pursuers than if they would just relax and enjoy life.

OK. If there is no purpose, I see little meaning in "the best thing we can do". This sounds totally arbitrary, a mere personal preference.

I've heard that hydrogen peroxide is deadlier than dihydrogen monoxide.

Thanks Michael, I will look into alternatives, as my distaste for the canned beans makes it unlikely I will continue with canned foods.

James, Thanks for the additional information. It all helps me to work toward the ON part of CRON. I shall add some black beans to my diet, starting today. The CRON-O-Meter report you attached to a previous post was compelling. I found a can of "Black beans, canned, drained, low sodium" at the local H.E.B. supermarket here (coastal TX). Previously I'd avoided beans for flimsy reasons. I don't cook from scratch, and all canned foods seem "dead" to me (irrational impression). Further, when I ate cooked beans from a can, I felt like I had a stomach full of lead shot. Anyway, in the pursuit of ON, I'll be adding some canned black beans, and later on some lentils. Thank you.

James, Thanks for the very enlightening post. Your response to my question about supplements will take awhile for me to work through, and will result in additions to my supplement regime. Thank you for the great info. I compose in an editor with frequent saves, and paste into the browser only to preview and post. I imagine a lot of brilliance is forever lost when the post is vaporized. Dean found a way to recover autosaved text, as he explained here. I've been working through Michael's document carefully, and have adopted most of Dean's recommendations already. I'm an old hand at CR, but learning about ON from the gurus on the CRS forums (yourself included of course). I've always thought potatoes a great source of nutrients. I simply don't cook and had to forgo their benefits, which is especially regrettable considering their cheapness. I asked: James replied: That confirms my suspicions. I entered all your foods but the mysterious "Chili 1" and "Stir-fry vegetables, frozen, unprepared" into my CRON-O-Meter. That produced a profile much like my current, slightly deficient profile. So I concluded the mystery ingredients were responsible for the evident superiority of your diet (especially "Chili 1", since I get loads of veggies). I presume the green graphic beside the two mystery items on your CRON-O-Meter report signifies that they are custom foods. I asked: James replied: That's a relief. I've added walnuts to my daily list, but that only led to omega-6=34% while omega-3=184%. Far from the 3:1 target, but better than the 3%/128% I had before introducing walnuts. Another changed effected by the addition of walnuts is P:F:C went from roughly 10%:10%:80% to 20%:20%:60%, which is moving in the right direction. Well, thank you James. You've given me lots to think on, and I will be making some changes.

Thanks James, It's good to have someone following a similar diet. I presume you saw Dean's supplement list. I've never taken pills before. Do you? The only foods on your report I don't eat routinely are oatmeal, pea protein isolate, chili, potato, and tempeh. I don't eat legumes, but only because they need to be cooked. I never cook because I don't want to spend the time. That's why I eat raw foods. Your diet is better. I consumed tempeh until I saw a report that vegans relying on tempeh were B-12 deficient. I don't recall where I read that, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's not a settled question. But anyway I stopped eating tempeh. Your diet looks exemplary to me. Your CRON-O-Meter breakdown is far superior to mine. You've probably noticed the biggest deficiencies I reported (and I have other less alarming deficiencies). I imagine your intake of legumes and potatoes accounts for much of the superiority. Can you tell me what foods are contributing most to vitamin D, calcium, and selenium on your CRON-O-Meter report? I notice your report doesn't show percentages for omega-3 and omega-6. My report for yesterday had omega-3=128% while omega-6=3%. I wonder how you are getting enough omega-6 to achieve the recommended 3:1 ratio. Thanks for joining this thread. Your data are very interesting.

I'll change them in future orders, except for the Ovega-3, which is quite clearly vegan per the packaging. It says it's capsules are plant-derived. Dean, Sorry for the error, I should not post when tired. The Ovega-3 is clearly vegan.

Well said Zeta, and I concur.

Sucrose 21g Fructose 61g Glucose 31g Sugar 139g EDIT: updated with the values for a typical day

My bad. I must admit, that while I'm a vegan for ethical reasons, I've never been a stickler for gelatin in my supplements. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I'll go with this vegan one from Now next time, and take it less frequently, since its 200mcg (286% RDA), rather than 100mcg per capsule. --Dean Dean, I don't expect those minuscule amounts of gelatin to affect my health, but I prefer to avoid it. I'm not sure whether it's some ethical concern or some irrational motive. In any case, I don't like holier-than-thou attitudes, so you'll never need to defend your choices to me. In case you're interested: of the supplements I checked, the following contained gelatin: Sundown D3 Swanson selenium Carlson K2 Trunature Lutein Ovega-3 DHA Finding vegan alternatives on Amazon was easy. Having wasted time on this gelatin distraction, I apologize and want to reaffirm how useful your vegan supplement regime is. Thanks again for the guidance.