mikeccolella

https://www.bcm.edu/news/glynac-supplementation-reverses-aging-hallmarks-in-aging-humans Remarkable results in humans!

And add to that the fact that supplements are almost always found to be useless at best in clinical trials

I wasn’t totally serious of course. That’s why there is an lol. But your points are worthy and heck it’s complicated, but IAC supplementation of any kind has rarely, very rarely been shown to confer benefit for most people and sometimes harm. but that’s generally only when megadosing which we are not discussing wrt choline I don’t think. For me I’ll just stick to a whole food, plant based diet And furthermore I’m quitting the 4 eggs a week I was eating in a desperate attempt to get enough choline. I like Dean Pomerleau’s idea of giving up on the goal of getting the rda for choline and simply eating a healthy whole food, plant based diet and getting 300ish mg of choline. I think this study lends support to Dean’s thinking on this.

So taking choline supplements is probably suicidal LOL! Br J Nutr. 2019 Jul 10:1-9. doi: 10.1017/S0007114519001065. [Epub ahead of print] Dietary choline is positively related to overall and cause-specific mortality: results from individuals of the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey and pooling prospective data. Mazidi M1, Katsiki N2, Mikhailidis DP3, Banach M4,5,6. Author information 1 Key State Laboratory of Molecular Developmental Biology, Institute of Genetics and Developmental Biology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Chaoyang, Beijing, People's Republic of China. 2 Second Propedeutic Department of Internal Medicine, Medical School, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Hippokration Hospital, Thessaloniki, Greece. 3 Department of Clinical Biochemistry, Royal Free Campus, University College London Medical School, University College London (UCL), London, UK. 4 Department of Hypertension, Chair of Nephrology and Hypertension, Medical University of Lodz, Lodz, Poland. 5 Polish Mother's Memorial Hospital Research Institute (PMMHRI), Lodz, Poland. 6 Cardiovascular Research Centre, University of Zielona Gora, Zielona Gora, Poland. Abstract Little is known about the association between dietary choline intake and mortality. We evaluated the link between choline consumption and overall as well as cause-specific mortality by using both individual data and pooling prospective studies by meta-analysis and systematic review. Furthermore, adjusted means of cardiometabolic risk factors across choline intake quartiles were calculated. Data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (1999-2010) were collected. Adjusted Cox regression was performed to determine the risk ratio (RR) and 95 % CI, as well as random-effects models and generic inverse variance methods to synthesise quantitative and pooling data, followed by a leave-one-out method for sensitivity analysis. After adjustments, we found that individuals consuming more choline had worse lipid profile and glucose homeostasis, but lower C-reactive protein levels (P < 0·001 for all comparisons) with no significant differences in anthropometric parameters and blood pressure. Multivariable Cox regression models revealed that individuals in the highest quartile (Q4) of choline consumption had a greater risk of total (23 %), CVD (33 %) and stroke (30 %) mortality compared with the first quartile (Q1) (P < 0·001 for all comparison). These results were confirmed in a meta-analysis, showing that choline intake was positively and significantly associated with overall (RR 1·12, 95 % CI 1·08, 1·17, I2 = 2·9) and CVD (RR 1·28, 95 % CI 1·17, 1·39, I2 = 9·6) mortality risk. In contrast, the positive association between choline consumption and stroke mortality became non-significant (RR 1·18, 95 % CI 0·97, 1·43, P = 0·092, I2 = 1·1). Our findings shed light on the potential adverse effects of choline intake on selected cardiometabolic risk factors and mortality risk.

https://doi.org/10.1111/acel.13028 metformin and growth hormone reverses aging in humans. Bio markers of aging were reversed and that is big news indeed. Even cr in rats doesn’t do that.

My own experience which I’ve reported here several times is this. high 35-40% fat raises my Hdl by about a 1/3, cuts triglycerides in half and has zero effect on my ldl when compared to a low fat diet ~ 12-15% The fat thing is still an issue for some and of course high fat diets tend to injure the endothelial tissue by causing chronic issues with flow mediated dilation. Of course this will effect some more than others such as smokers, sedentary folks, junk foodies, diabetics etc. wine is an excellent accompaniment with high fat meals and may partly explain the French paradox.

I agree with you Dean; however I’ve found it challenging to eat a vegan diet and to get 550 mg. Which MR says is likely insufficient! Not sure what he’s basing that on. You didn’t mention legumes? How come? I’m eating 4 oz of broccoli, ounce of nuts, cabbage, collards, cup of lentils and cup of chickpeas, mushrooms, whole grains like wheat bran, oats etc and I still only get 388 mg. The egg pushes me up over 500. Me thinks your on to something Dean. This 550 mg. Of Choline just does not ring true.

http://www.clevelandheartlab.com/blog/what-your-gut-says-about-your-heart/ for now I am simply going to follow the above advice of the Cleveland clinic. The whole plant thing advantage seems to be based on gut microbes and this some other substances. As for choline one egg a day should be fine and at 150 mg of choline will push me above 500 mg. I will eat eggs from a woman I know personally who sells them and considers them pets and treats them accordingly. They don’t mention it in the above for some reason but elsewhere they recommend balsamic vinegar, grape oil, red wine and EVOO. I will continue with 8 oz of wine with evening meal and add some balsamic vinegar for the 3,3-Dimethyl-1-butanol

Maybe a dumb question but is vegan choline less problematic strictly considering TMAO or no??

https://time.com/4070762/red-wine-resveratrol-diabetes/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social-share-article&utm_content=20190806 I have tested the post prandial effect of red wine several times. It is just one more positive effect. The stuff is excellent medicine imo,

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/add.14402 The above study addresses the issue brought up by Ron wrt aging and alcohol and seems to support Ron’s contention that alcohol loses its benefits in old age. In the meantime I will be reviewing the studies posted by Sibirak and whatever else I can dig up looking specifically for more information, if any, that specifies Wines overall impact on mortality in the over 60 population.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378512214002941 the problem is outlined above. Wine appears to have remarkable effects, even profound effects on overall mortality;however as we all know the evidence is mostly observational and may be simply and association. The likelihood is that wine drank at very moderate levels is EVEN MORE BENEFICIAL then surmised based on several factors and they are: 1. Underreporting 2. Drink sizes tend to be more than what researchers call a drink. This ties in with the above and exaggerates the overall problem 3. Abstainers are often sickly former drinkers. 4. The very negative effects of binge drinking which is problematic because the overall weekly consumption may appear lite to moderate

My daughters in their teen years had BP READINGS QUITE SIMILAR TO YOURS TOM. Their pediatrician said it was quite normal. My only concern would be if you r having any cognitive issues. In aging low blood pressure can be an issue here if arteries in the brain are not squeaky clean as they would be in youth. The not totally clear arteries may, with lower pressures, not keep up the supplies of glucose, oxygen etc. to ideal levels which could effect cognitive abilities.

I do recall Longo saying the same